Question for line judges.

minealone6 · **Question for line judges. -** 02-21-2008, 10:21 PM

I'm in a rec league that plays once a week. 3 teams are scheduled to play, 2 play and the members of the 3rd team calls lines and keeps score. The referee is payed by the league and is the same person for the entire season. This season the referee over ruled me on a couple of close calls while I was calling lines. I was starting to think I was going blind. Then, a few people had told me that it looked like I had made the right call. Then during this weeks games I made a call that the ball had hit the line and was in. The ref made the call that it was out. 3 people on the back row, who were closer than me, all said that the ball was in. The ref still called it as out. This happened again later in the game. At this point I was wondering why I was even standing there, my calls didn't seem to matter. After the game the ref came over and said he wasn't picking on me, that there had been a rule change about the way to call lines. He said that it had changed from any part of a compressed ball touching any part of the line, to at least 50% of the ball had to be inside the line to be called in. If more than half the ball was outside of that line, it would be called out. I hadn't heard about this, and apparently people in the league hadn't either. Has anybody else heard of this? Could someone explain it a little better, or point me to the wording in the rule book, and maybe a diagram that explains this better, because I'm still a little fuzzy on it. To me it seems harder to judge if a ball is more than half one way or the other, than to just see if it touches the line. If this is the case, some of the really hard driven spikes that hit the line are going to be hard to call.

NewEnglandRT · **Shenanigans! -** 02-22-2008, 12:44 AM

Hogwash!!!

At least in USAV. The line is the court and any part of the ball touching any part of the line is in.

Sometimes there are funny HS rules etc. I don't know where else this person officiates but I've seen good USAV refs second guess themselves because they ref'd a HS match the night before and need to get their heads clear.

BHitterDPasser · 11:09 AM

I only have a 2006-2007 book, but 8.3 states:

The ball is "in" when it touches the floor of the playing court, including the boundary lines.

And 8.4.1 states the ball is "out" when:

the part of the ball which contacts the floor is completely outside the boundary lines.

Unless there was a change to section 8.3 & 8.4 in the 07-08 book, looks like you were doing your job.

This is further supported by the 2005-2008 FIVB rules in the same section found here: http://www.fivb.org/en/Volleyball/Ru...me.Eng-Fre.pdf

I also did a little research and found the 08 USAV book with the same wording in the same section on page 31 found here: http://www.usavolleyball.org/media/r...8indoorDCR.pdf

NewEnglandRT · 02-22-2008, 04:59 PM

I knew your or Tim would follow up with links. You guys have too much time on your hands!

mycena · 02-25-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewEnglandRT

I knew your or Tim would follow up with links. You guys have too much time on your hands!

Haha Good call NERT! Minealone, print it out and bring it to the league with you... ask him what rules he is following and then maybe you can get some clarification.

I play in three different leagues and the quoted rules below are how we play and of course Yankee follows the USAV rules. But all leagues have their own weird rules too. Maybe that's one of them.

OmniSpiker · 03-03-2008, 03:46 PM

house rule / league rule...

I'd say it's much harder to judge the position of the ball in movement to guess if it's more than fifty percent of a blurr in or out rather than just see the impact of the ball on the floor, period.

BHitterDPasser · 03-04-2008, 02:12 PM

It's so much easier in outdoor ball. Did the line bounce?

OmniSpiker · 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHitterDPasser

It's so much easier in outdoor ball. Did the line bounce?

I find that a controversy itself too. Granted in most instances the ball actually touched the line. However...

In sand the boom from the ball can make the line move when the ball clearly missed the line. In fact the boom itself may even touch the line, while the ball may never had touch the line.

In grass the impact moving grass can make the line move when the ball merely only hit grass only.

The same as we apply foot faults on lines. Just because the line moved, doesn't always mean it's an actual foot fault. We don't measure the displaced sand by the motion of the foot either.

It comes down to, did the line judge kneel down so that they actually say the impact of the ball hitting or missing line? I do when I line judge, but I've haven't seen an other indoor line judge get down on their knees. Seen some beach line judges get down.

BHitterDPasser · 03-07-2008, 12:58 AM

I know exactly what you are saying but I think if you play with the house or tournament rule of the line moving is in, it removes all amiguity although it may make the court a little bigger.

OmniSpiker · 03-07-2008, 12:26 PM

True, as also dependent on the competition level. If assigned AA/open the technicality of actual line touch is the correct application of the rule as based on judgment. I like it so much better when on a sand court a big 1 1/2" to 2" rope is used instead of a ribbon. The heavier rope is less prone to move just from sand disturbances. Those ribbon's jump a lot and can give false impression of line touch.